Countdown to opening day 2011

**pvfan** · January 17th, 2011, 07:50 PM

(if not THE GOAT) to ever step foot on a baseball diamond

Please stop insulting the game.

**1inStripes** · January 17th, 2011, 07:58 PM

Something is really screwy about those stats if they rank Bonds the 21st best outfielder versus replacement. Bonds was not a great outfielder. Good coverage guy till about 98 in the field, but a terrible arm who loafed alot.

**Biggin** · January 17th, 2011, 08:12 PM

He had a great arm as a young guy, just look at the putouts

**Biggin** · January 17th, 2011, 08:14 PM

How in the world a guy can hit 46 HR and 29 SB and 33 HR with 52 SB not be considered one of the best ever?

Whitey Ford threw spitballs, Walter Johnson played in the dead ball era and never had to face black players, etc...
It goes both ways.

**Biggin** · January 17th, 2011, 08:15 PM

If you vote Whitey Ford and Gaylord Perry in, both confessed cheaters, why not Bonds?
Using something to gain an unfair advantage over the competition, is that not what Bonds and Perry both did?

Not to mention there was no steroid testing at all back then, how do we know none of them were using roids?
Also, Walter Johnson played in a dead ball era, Cy Young never faced black players, etc... Baseball is a funny sport because its been around hundreds of years. If players were cheating back then, whos to say that Ty Cobb wouldnt use roids if he was born in 1980?

Plus the fact that baseball players were hopped up on amphetamines hardcore until recently, I dont see how baseball writers can overlook some stuff but put their foot down on Bonds.

**pvfan** · January 17th, 2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

How in the world a guy can hit 46 HR and 29 SB and 33 HR with 52 SB not be considered one of the best ever?

That's a great season. If we put the nine best of all time on the field by position even you wouldn't trot Bonds out to left field.

**pvfan** · January 17th, 2011, 08:22 PM

Not to mention there was no steroid testing at all back then, how do we know none of them were using roids?

Maybe because anabolic steroids didn't even exist in the days of Cobb, Johnson, Speaker, etc.?

**Biggin** · January 17th, 2011, 08:23 PM

Who would you put?

Ted Williams?

What did Ted ever do that was better than Bonds, considering the era?

Williams had a higher average, Bonds had better power

**Biggin** · January 17th, 2011, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by pvfan

Maybe because anabolic steroids didn't even exist in the days of Cobb, Johnson, Speaker, etc.?

Nope, anabolic steroids were derived in the 1930s, in the era of Speaker and such.

German soldiers are rumored to have been on testosterone in World War II. Anabolics have been around for over 70 years

**pvfan** · January 17th, 2011, 08:26 PM

Also, Walter Johnson played in a dead ball era, Cy Young never faced black players, etc... Baseball is a funny sport because its been around hundreds of years. If players were cheating back then, whos to say that Ty Cobb wouldnt use roids if he was born in 1980?

You are viewed in comparison to the era in which you played and the rules that were used in your era. I don't think you understand that "doctoring" the baseball was legal at one point. The steroid users of the 1990's and 2000's broke the rules of their day.